Why Islam is NOT Christianity that could have been
Before we even get started with the body of ’s article, even his subtitle is wrong. It reads,
“No magic crackers. No God-in-human-form. Just the old message before Rome wrecked it.”
Tanner talks about God not taking a human form in Islam, however there are a number of problems with that position.
- The Quran confirms the Torah and the Gospel (Surah 2:41,3:3, 5:47, 68, 10:94) so the Quran by default confirms the gospel accounts of God taking the form of a man in the person of Jesus. God in the Torah also appears as a man to Abraham (Genesis 18) and to Joshua (Joshua 5). If the Torah and the Gospel are corrupted then the Quran is false for confirming corrupted books and telling Christians to judge by them.
- Allah in the hadith will appear as a man to Muslims. The difference between the Anti Christ (who is a man in Islam as in Christianity)and Allah is that the latter is not one-eyed (Bukhari 7408, Muslim 2933a, Sunan Abi Dawud 4320). In another Hadith, Allah is said to appear to Muslims in multiple shapes until they recognise him (Bukhari 6573). “…Allah will come to them in a shape other than they know and will say, ‘I am your Lord.’ They will say, ‘We seek refuge with Allah from you. This is our place; (we will not follow you) till our Lord comes to us, and when our Lord comes to us, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to then in a shape they know and will say, “I am your Lord.’ They will say, ‘(No doubt) You are our Lord,’ and they will follow Him…”
- Allah’s word in the Quran, which is created and eternal takes both the form of the man Jesus Christ (Surah 4:171) and the form of a pale man on the day of resurrection (Sunan Ibn Majah 3781).
- The spirit of Allah takes the form of a perfect man and appears to Mary in Surah 19:17
So Tanner is already off on the wrong foot here. On Islam being “the old message before Rome ruined it” Islam teaches that it is fine to have multiple wives, sex slaves and marry girls who have not reached puberty yet (Surah 4:3–4, 23:5–6, 70:30 and 65:4), I challenge Tanner to show me where “the old message” which he thinks so highly of also taught these things.
Tanner: We often imagine Islam to have started in a vacuum, when in reality it came from the same stew as Christianity — same God, same region, same message of one God and a bunch of prophets. The difference? Christianity got hijacked by Rome. Islam didn’t.
I have never met anybody who said Islam started in a vacuum, it originated in the context of a polytheistic and pagan Arabia. Christianity however started within the context of second temple Judaism, so apples and oranges here. Anybody who knows anything about Islam knows that both religions are definitely not talking about the same God. The Christian God loves the world so much He gave His son to die for the sins of the world (John 3:16) and all of this was done while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8), the God of Islam says until you follow him and his prophet Muhammad, he hates you and he hates those who do not believe in him (Surah 3:31–32, 30:45). One says love your enemy (Matt 5:44), the other says kill your enemy (Surah 9:29). You have to be on hashish to say Islam and Christianity are from the same stew and worship the same God.
Tanner: You want to know what Islam is? It’s Christianity before Rome threw a robe on Jesus, slapped on some Greek philosophy, and turned him into a magical sky-God who had to die so his dad could forgive you. Muhammad didn’t invent a new religion — he just refused to swallow Rome’s version.
This is patently false. Rome had nothing to do with Christianity and I challenge Tanner the humanist to show me one Christian belief that does not have its roots in the Hebrew scriptures. I also challenge Tanner to provide sources showing that Rome created Christianity.
Tanner: Many Christians assume that Jews and they believe in the same God, but that Muslims worship a separate “Islamic” god. In reality, most Jews would acknowledge that Muslims worship the same Abrahamic God they do. What neither Jews nor Muslims accept, though, is the claim that Jesus is God. To them, that’s a direct violation of monotheism.
So if there’s an oddball in the equation, it’s Christianity — with its Trinity doctrine.
Again this is the ad-populum fallacy, what “Most Jews” say does not translate to truth. Most of the world (approximately 2.9 billion people confess Jesus Christ as the Son of God, I strongly suspect Tanner does not say Christianity is true on that basis, not should be). In fact Jewish scholars like Benjamin Sommer, Daniel Boyarin, Peter Shafer and Alex Segal have since acknowledged that second temple Judaism (which was in force during the time of Jesus Christ and Christianity) believed in some kind of plurality within the God of the Hebrew scriptures. It is impossible to read the Hebrew scriptures and conclude that YHVH is an absolute Monad, God literally introduces Himself with plural pronouns like “Us” and “Our” in Genesis and the Spirit of God is involved in creation from the very beginning. After all the fuss Tanner makes about the trinity, he fails to understand this: The doctrine of the trinity still states that there is ONE God, so how exactly it contradicts monotheism is beyond me. For example, Daniel writes,
“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.”
(Daniel 7:13–14)
The Son of Man is brought before the Ancient of days (who is clearly God) and all nations are supposed to serve Him forever. The Ancient of days has absolutely no problem with this. It is scriptures like this that led second temple Jews to believe there is some kind of plurality within YHWH otherwise YHVH would be contradicting His most important commandment, have no other gods before me.
Tanner claims Christianity was written by power hungry men. He says “Jesus was a wandering Jewish preacher. He called himself the “Son of Man,” not “God the Son.” That’s from Mark 10:45 — look it up. He didn’t demand worship. He didn’t start a church. He taught people to love God, care for each other, and stop being selfish. That was the whole deal.”
This is just blatant falsehood. First off, how in the world did the early Christians, who were persecuted and on occasion martyred for their message gain any power from what they actually wrote?
Secondly, we have seen that “Son of Man” is a divine title as per Daniel 7:13–14 above. In fact it is this claim to be the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven that earns Jesus the charge of blasphemy (Mark 14:62). We see that it is the will of the Ancient of Days that everyone serve the Son of Man eternally. Jesus, as Son of Man, demands the same honour as God,
“ For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”
(John 5:22–23)
If worship is honoring to God and Jesus demands the same honour due to God, then Jesus demanded worship. Over and over again in the gospels, Jesus is worshipped and in the book of Revelation, Jesus as “the Lamb” is given the exact same worship as God the Father.
Third, Jesus did in fact claim to be the Son of God. He says,
“All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
(Matthew 11:27)
And again,
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
(Matthew 7:21)
Jesus also claimed to be the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), greater than the Temple (Matthew 12:6), Lord and Master (John 13:13), Lord Lord (Which in the Septuagint is the title of God rendered “Adonai YHWH” in the Hebrew scriptures) in Luke 6:46. So to say all Jesus claimed to be was the Son of Man is deceptive at worst and misinformed at best.
Tanner claims that Jesus never started a church, however Jesus Himself says,
“And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”
(Matthew 16:18)
Jesus told His followers to take His message to the ends of the earth and He promised to be with them as they do so,
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
(Matthew 28:19–20)
Jesus taught about gathering in His name and how to deal with disagreements in the church in Matthew 18:15–17.
To say Jesus never started a church is ridiculous. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to empower His disciples to preach and establish the church.
Tanner’s claim to this effect, “He [Jesus] taught people to love God, care for each other, and stop being selfish. That was the whole deal.” is again just horribly off the mark! What was Jesus public message?
“From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
(Matthew 4:17)
And again,
“Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
(Mark 1:14–15)
And again,
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor…”
(Luke 4:18)
And again,
“ For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
(John 3:16–18)
And again,
“Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
(Luke 24:46–47)
You get the idea. Jesus preached repentance and the gospel, not loving and caring for each other. To love God with all your heart, soul and might was to repent, turn away from sin and embrace the gospel. I have no idea where Tanner is getting his version of Jesus from but it definitely is not from the Bible.
Tanner continues: Then he died. And then Paul showed up.
Paul didn’t know Jesus. Never met him. But he started writing letters and bossing people around like he was the main character. Suddenly Jesus wasn’t just a prophet — he was God in the flesh, and believing that became more important than actually doing what Jesus taught.
The Church took Paul’s version, made it the official one, and crushed everything else.
I have exhaustively addressed this issue in the below article:
Tanner proceeds: Christianity says Jesus had to die because God couldn’t just forgive us. He needed blood. What kind of God needs blood like some ancient volcano god?
Islam says: nope.
- No original sin.
- No crucifixion to wash away Adam’s mess.
- No cannibal-style Eucharist.
God forgives if you repent. You’re responsible for your own actions. That’s it.
This just proves beyond doubt that Tanner knows two things about Islam, Jack and Squat. On the contrary, Islam does believe in the original sin.
“Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. ‘O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.’ Then Adam said to him, ‘O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?’ So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses,” the Prophet (ﷺ) added, repeating the Statement three times.”
(Bukhari 6614)
Why would Allah eject Moses from paradise because of the sin of Adam? I thought Moses was responsible for his own actions? Note the second way this hadith exposes Tanner’s ignorance. Tanner claims God forgives those who repent and people are responsible for their own actions. The Quran over and over again says “Allah forgives who he wills and leads who he wills astray”. Adam himself said his sin in paradise was ordained for him by Allah. Not only that, Allah even writes the amount of adultery a man will commit in his lifetime,
“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Apostle (ﷺ) as saying:
Verily Allah has fixed the very portion of adultery which a man will indulge in, and which he of necessity must commit. The adultery of the eye is the lustful look, and the adultery of the tongue is the licentious speech, the heart desires and yearns, which the parts may or may not put into effect.”
(Sahih Muslim 2657b)
Tanner also does not know how Allah forgives sins. It involves “the human sacrifice of Christians and Jews” for Muslims. Please see the below article where I have exhaustively discussed substitutionary atonement in Islam,
A lot more could be said on Tanner’s article but for the sake of time I will stop here. I think the bulk of his point around competing Christianities and Rome choosing an official version is sufficiently addressed in the article “Exposing the myth of competing Christianities and lost gospels” linked above. Tanner knows nothing about Islam and the hadiths/Quranic verses I shown countering his main points demonstrate that.
I respect Tanner because he at least tries to engage pushback on his articles and does not block you for disagreeing with him but it does appear his main aim is to smear Christianity at any cost, even at the cost of truth or as elevating a sick and evil religion of terror like Islam above the gospel of Christ.
